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Good Omens

If anyone is a little concerned that things might not go well tonight and we could, heaven forbid, be looking at a place in the Europa League, we`ve a few, just a few mind you, stats to ease your worries.

Discounting that dreadful night at Wembley, United are unbeaten in their last 8 Champions League away fixtures, if we can keep the sequence going we`ll be through.

The referee, Bjorn Keiper, has refereed us one in European competition before and on that occasion, back in 2009, we trounced Wolfsburg 3-1.

Our hosts tonight, Basel, have a miserable record against English opposition having won only 1 of 12 games.

Feel any bett rnow?

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Writer: Red Boy

Date:Wednesday December 7 2011

Time: 5:40PM

Your Comments

You couldn't even buy your trip to the knockout stage! Couldn't have asked for an easier draw and you bottled it.

PhillyBlueMoon

Oops. Still think you're getting nearer to barca?

fifthcolumnblue

Philly, were you born an idiot? You've just seen your team got knocked out of the Champions League and the first thing you do is head on to VMU to gloat about how we got knocked out of the Champions League. You've talked about buying our way through when to date City have bought the FA Cup and their route into the Champions League in the first place and despite spending hundreds of millions more to challenge in the Champions League you got knocked out at the first hurdle. Like I said VFL get a grip mate.

TheFamousNo7

Cheers Famous, but we kind of expected tonight, ie we'd beat bayern, but the hapless Villareal would get turned over by Napoli. United have merely softened the blow of our exit by tripping up in the easiest group in the history of the Champions League. Trick is, we know that united in the Europa is something of a victory for us anyway - your entire fiancial well-being is predicated on getting as much prize money as you can from the Champions League, and the Europa won't exactly provide you with the same revenues. Tonight really has hastened your decline, as you're not going to be able to attract the players you need in January (that's if you can afford them), and I'm quite hoping we get the chance to destroy you in this particular competition as well. In the words of my mate Walter (Sky sports' City fan on the 6-1 demolition), TAKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fifthcolumnblue

Well , well , well..I have 2 words to say about this one...SURREAL and wonderful to have United out of the CL....and to see the CAPITAL OF FOOTBALL OUT with their noisy neighbours out too. One thing is certain, we will be seeing United and City continue to spend in the January window and no longer will we being seeing them criticise Chelsea for spending.. becaus ethey will be doing it too..after United have already spent £50+ million in the summer. I will say one more thing...maybe YOU SHOULD HAVE PAID SNEIJDERS HUGE WAGES lololol olol

Blue_Mel

Let's see, my club gets knocked out of the CL and the first thing I do is go to a rival's site and taunt them for being knocked out of the same competition!!!!!

JohnDoe

Hey boys i hope you are too busy on Thursday nights! ;) .... I really wanted both you guys to go through, just to have more English reps. it wasn't to be sadly.

blue_thru&thru

sorry, aren't too busy*

blue_thru&thru

@johnDoe - classic!!! Eases the pain of crashing out doesn't it? Good luck on Thursday nights mate!!!

blue_thru&thru

Actually Johndoe, I type with all 10 fingers, and am quite literate - I've already posted about 10-12 messages on Vital City, facebook and Twitter. Don't flatter yourself that this was my first port of call.

Slur to retire at the end of this season after we've knocked you for 6 (see what I did there? :P) in the league, destroyed you in the FA Cup and knocked you out of the Europa as well? Can't wait.

fifthcolumnblue

Good for you fifthcolumnblue, well done.

JohnDoe

No issue with us getting knocked out softening the blow of you getting knocked out I can assure you many United fans feel the same with City getting knocked out but to gloat about it is a bit ridiculous, we're in the same boat afterall. You've got to let go of the whole "you're on the decline" argument mate it gets boring, especially when we prove you wrong EVERY time and like the numerous times before when you are proven wrong you'll crawl back under your rock and that argument will be non-existant again. We're here to stay mate, get use to it and one season out of the Champions League knock-out stages won't stop the massive revenues and profits the club makes, hinder it in the short (very short) term, but nothing that can't be repaired. Blue_Mel you're still going to get criticised for spending mate as the difference between us and you is we need to spend in one position, the CM, you on the other hand lack quality up front, outwide, in the middle and at the back and any spending you do goes on top of the 100+ mil you've spent already this year and I'm willing to place about we will still finish ahead of you and our money is our own which we've earned in comparison you'll be begging Roman to bail you out again.

TheFamousNo7

Nice argument to have, I'm a loser but you're more of a loser than I am, so there. Very literate of you.

JohnDoe

10 fingers?! You might want to get that checked mate :P I'm also pretty certain JohnDoe is a Liverpool fan also.

TheFamousNo7

about = a bet ---- as for the numerous other grammar and spelling mistakes, deal with it. :P

TheFamousNo7

TFN7.. we may need some more players , but , but, but , have you forgotten already??? maybe i need to remind you ??? CHELSEA ARE STILL IN EUROPE!!!

Blue_Mel

Oh but we are SO not in the same boat Famous. Most pundits agree that City, with their lack of experience in Europe, got the toughest group by far, whereas, you got the easiest group ever. City are only the fifth team in the history of the Cl to go out after getting 10 points, but you totally fluffed your lines. We are not dependent on the CL for our revenues as of yet, but you most definitely are. Taggart said he wouldn't be spending in January, well he most certainly won't be now. This is a minor setback for City, but a complete body blow to united.

fifthcolumnblue

maybe i also shoul remind you of a little known other fact too...WE QUALIFIED TOP OF OUR GROUP! lmao

Blue_Mel

So are Man U Blue_Mel? :S Maybe you should be more specific.

TheFamousNo7

Don't make me laugh fcb your finances are in a 5hit state and you were relying on a good Champions League run to help sort them out to atleast qualify under the FFP ruling. We on the other hand are already in the positive and make massive revenues even without the knockout stages of the Champions League. If anything us getting knocked out is more of a body blow as we're an established financial force you on the other hand are still working towards it and the early exit could really stick a spanner in the works.

TheFamousNo7

Despite being in the Champions League (do remember the Europa is in Europe, it's pretty much in the name and very silly of you to forget) Blue_Mel I'm also willing to place a bet that you will still announce losses at the end of the year whilst we announce profits.

TheFamousNo7

On a more serious note, bit of a bugger seeing half the English teams out at such an early hurdle. However amusing. At what point is UEFA going to dock us a qualifying slot?

BlueBanes

Not too sure BB - not sure tonight will count too badly towards England's coefficiant in the short term, and part of it might depend on how well English clubs do in the Europa as weel. I think if united's downward spiral continues though, they might review the position. Not sure that helps muc, but i am on my 5th beer now!

fifthcolumnblue

hence the repetition of not sure. P.S. Do me a favour united fans on 606 - calling for your manager's head is a bit tight don't you think?

fifthcolumnblue

I'm on a number of beers also mate. :P Do us a favour won't you both? Try to pull off a Manchester derby Europa league final? Good for England's coefficient and it'll entertain this "neautral" and many others no end.

BlueBanes

I'd be more than happy with that BB, cheers!

fifthcolumnblue

Let's see, my club gets knocked out of the CL and the first thing I do is go to a rival's site and taunt them for being knocked out of the same competition!!!!! JohnDoe Your buddy Nobby Allcock does it all the time.

PhillyBlueMoon

this will add to utds massive debts???

11ledleykings

Who is Nobby Allcock????

JohnDoe

god you were terrible tonite whats goin?g on enjoy playing Vladavostok Hawks in outer Krgykstan.

Uskok

Nobby Allcock is a United fan who spends all his time apparently posting on the VMC forums and not here. That's pathetic if he's not a poster here.

PhillyBlueMoon

City fans can gloat all they want .its not the exit that is painful but the manner.We are not playing well at the moment .But not playing well and second in the league and only five points behind the leaders there is room for improvement we will come good in 2012

nickster

@The famous number7 - I've said it before and I say it again - this United side is average at best. I said this end of last season, said it again when silly money was being spent on average players like Young, just because he is English. Yet not a lot of people agreed because results were coming against mid-to-lower table sides and people just failed to see how mediocre this united side is. because they managed to beat a reserve and kid side wenger had to put? Your blue neighbours play more attractive football now. Yes they have spent to be here. but so have you earned or gifted - that might differ. I support chelsea. yes, we are despised by everyone. But we are also on a year of transition like you folks. But the good thing for Chelsea is that quite a lot of spots are getting filled already - we already know how our midfield would look like in future. Sturridge and Mata have made two of the front spots three their own. Ramires and Romeu if he stays. Josh just needs one loan spell. These are all players who could match the European elite. Some are already there, some are just getting there. While Ashley might have his best night against a midtable English side and that would be it. Even the game we lost against United. The signs were evident that United weren't as good as they were made out to be. Our manager is a romantic and played with a high line. But I didnt mind the loss, because there was promise. Could you say the same. I'm not trying to gloat here. Its just a reality check for you lot. This is no way the doom of your club. Nor will it put too much stress on your spending power. You can still attract top players. But hasnt Ferguson just brought together a team of over rated Englishmen? Perhaps. Perhaps Evra ought to be a bit more humble next time he calls Arsenal just a bunch of boys. A league win is sometimes not a reflection of a team's quality. Having been handed out the easiest draw in Europe, United are out and will now feature in Thursday and Sunday romances and too much was talked about United filling the gap with Barca. You lot will be back again next season. But better get some genuine quality in that lineup..not just what could tame the wolves or swans, but the better sides in Europe

box-to-box

and when I said ashley I meant Young not Cole. :p

box-to-box

Box-to-box, what do you think you're doing coming on here with a rational argument? They don't like rational arguments here.

Bluedub

We love rational arguments bluedub, it's a breath of fresh air from the tripe you normally post.

TheFamousNo7

I knew you'd bite on that one sweetheart. x

Bluedub

box-to-box I've never denied that this squad isn't as strong as the previous squads we've seen come and go but at the same time whilst it may not be as strong as the other squads it has falsely lead people into believing the current crop of players are mediocre and average at best when it simply isn't true. I genuinely believe the team we possess in defence and attack is well up to the mark to compete with the best and that the issue with our squad is, and has been for a long time now, the central midfield. When we actually had a decent midfielder in Cleverley it wasn't coincidence that our best attack displays came when he was in the team, the argument is supported by the fact that as soon as he got injured we began scrapping for results again. In todays modern game the transition from attack to defence and how effective each part of the game is entirely dependent on your midfield, something you Chelsea fans have no doubt found in this season. If we had a touch of quality in the middle now, rather than waiting for Pogba, Morrison and Cleverley to provide it, i'm confident the squad would be far more convincing and prove many doubters and critics wrong. If we possessed that touch of quality that can unlock defenses and play that killer ball through the middle in the same manner in which Rooney and Nani can do upfront and outwide there would be no argument that this squad is average, we would still be in the Champions League and the 5 point gap would be far less. Have no doubt about where this squad is heading, it has so much potential and possible world class talent it's actually a scary thought. De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Fabio, Nani, Pogba, Morrison, Young, Rooney and Hernandez is United's future and if they live up to their potential that's a real force of a starting line-up. Cheers for the first actually decent and rational post by the way, like I said, it's a breath of fresh air from the usual drivel we're exposed to.

TheFamousNo7

"it has so much potential and possible world class talent it's actually a scary thought" I honestly nearly fell off my chair laughing at that, a scary thought? Will you get a grip of reality mate.

Bluedub

Only you would deny the potential this squad has bluedub. Rafael, Fabio, Smalling, Jones, Pogba, Morrison and De Gea all do have the potential to be world class, you're just blinkered, one-eyed and completely out of touch with reality. Another load of drivel spouted by yourself.

TheFamousNo7

The problem is, united do not have any liquid assets at the moment. Your commercial growth has been steady, but the loss of more than £40m (the ammount you earned from making the CL final last year) will leave a very significant hole in your finances. As things stand, you are down to your last £65m in cash (about what Sneijder would cost in terms of transfer fee and wages), and will have to start selling players to earn some more cash if you are to rectify the holes in your squad. The £3.5m per month that you are spending just to pay off the interest on your debt is dragging you down, and the "genius" £500m bond issue of last season suddenly doesn't look quite so genius when you are paying out 8.5% on the bonds during a timw when UK base rates are running at 0.5%. Going out of the Champions League will really hurt your club, both in terms of income from the comptetiton and in terms of which players will find you an attractive prospect. Expect not very much movement in january (except perhaps outwards) and not a great deal more in the summer. I don't expect too much growth in your commercial revenues in the near future either, as the Europ league is not quite as attractive to sponsors. In short, this is a total disaster for united.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/15/manchester-united-cash-holdings?INTCMP=SRCH

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16084594.stm

fifthcolumnblue

TF7 I have said on here before that there is plenty of potential in U*d's youngsters, so don't talk crap. To say it's a scary thought is just ******** ludicrous.

Bluedub

And famous, nobody is denying that you have some quite talented young players at the club at the moment, but do you not think it's a bit naiive to place so much trust in players that haven't been proven at the highest (or any) level? Two seasons ago it was Tosic, Ljajic, Obertan, Gibson. 3 have left, and most reds wish Gibson had. What's to say that Pogba, will still be with you next season - don't forget he's free to talk to other clubs next month. Chavel Morrison could go on to be a cracking player, or he could end up like Ronnie Wallwork and spend his days slopping out. The Da Silva twins clearly have talent, but I think I'm correct in saying that they have both spent longer on the treatment table than they have playing! So as your older players like Berbatov, Ferdinand and Giggs wind their careers down and provide you with little to no sell on value, Rooney continues to underperform and your medical team continue to do inject strange substances into your players (hasn't worked for Turdinand's back, and I suspect it's the reason Hernandez suffers from fragile ankles) I just don't see much joy for you in the near future. You need to buyy some decent players to replace the dross and guide the youngsters, but unfortunately for you I don't think you can.

fifthcolumnblue

fcb I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of finances but surely the Glazers putting a 25% share of the club up on the stock market estimated at a value of 600 mil is more than sufficient enough to whipe out the remaining debt, generate massive revenues or invest and strengthen the squad, more specifically, the central midfield. No?

TheFamousNo7

Are you certain that putting out a share issue in the middle of a global financial melt-down is a good idea Famous? The Glazers have postponed the float indefinitely BTW, as they clearly don't fancy the markets at the moment. And remember - the value of share investments can go up as well as down! ;P

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Manchester-United-owners-the-Glazers-postpone-plans-sell-off-25-of-the-club-for-estimated-600million-article800270.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2011/08/why_man_utd_asian_float_could.html

fifthcolumnblue

Like I've admitted to don't know much about finances to submit a strong counter-argument but I'm still pretty confident that even with this hiccup in the Champions League if Fergie believes the squad needs stengthening, the Glazers will provide the required funds for it to happen. Whilst the Champions League does provide massive revenues and the Europa isn't a scratch on it will one season out of the Champions League knock-out rounds be the demise of a footballing and financial juggernaut? I don't think so, a thorn in the side in the short-term but something we will recover from. We've needed quality in the CM position for yonks now but Fergie hasn't spent on it. It would appear he's oblivious to the fact that Carrick and Gibson just aren't good enough whilst Anderson and Fletcher can't be anything more than squad players despite the clear deficiences in midfield can i see a premature knockout changing Fergies mind about these players? Nope. I reckon Fergie will stick with his players, see it as a fluke and one off and not even consider spending in January, no matter our financial situation.

TheFamousNo7

So you wouldn't even entertain the possibility that you may not have bought a central midfielder because of lack of funds despite there being strong arguments that suggest that may be the case? And you call me blinkered and one eyed? Priceless!

Bluedub

Why do you think your club has gone all-out to tie a large number of your players down to new deals Famous? It's A) because it changes their amortisation parameters so they count as less of a loss on the balance sheet, B) because you won't make anything on them if they are sold and C) because you cannot afford to spend much in the transfer market. Taggart, Gill and the Glazers have been treating you all like mushrooms.

fifthcolumnblue

The whole you have no money argument disappeared in the Summer when Fergie spent 50 mil reinforcing surely. I do believe we have the money to buy players yes, we did report profits of other 100 mil in the last season so clearly money isn't an issue. Fergie has always said when he wants money the Glazers give it to him and I believe that, why? If he wasn't allowed money he wouldn't of spent 30 mil on Berby 36 mil on Anderson & Nani or 50 mil on Young, De Gea and Jones to name a few. To be honest fellas the only way Fergie could disprove you about not having money to spend is if he went on a Man City-esque spending spree something the club doesn't need. Like I said I put us not signing a midfielder down to the fact the Fergie genuinely believes the current crop of CM's is good enough. One less and all the old cliche comments and arguments come popping up again.

TheFamousNo7

less = loss

TheFamousNo7

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/manchester-united-fergies-fledglings-are-a-media-fallacy/

fifthcolumnblue

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