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United - Milner Transfer War?

City may have the money but we`ve certainly got enough history to challenge our neighbours when it comes to acquiring decent players in the transfer market this summer.

Now we don`t normally go head-to-head but we could be about to if the red-top press have their facts straight.

Our neighbours, if the red-tops are right, have had quite a large bid for James Milner, of Aston Villa turned down. Villa, naturally, do not want to sell.

But with Randy Lerner implementing a sell before you buy policy they may not have a choice, especially if a bidding war erupts for a certain talented player.

Milner, a midfielder of great promise, is tipped by those same red-tops to have tickled Sir Alex`s fancy and if the rumours are correct Sir Alex has the financial backing to snare his man.

The red-tops go on to pontificate that Milner is seen as the player to add fresh impetus to our midfield and at twenty-four years of age has his best years ahead of him.

It`s even suggested that out-of-favour Michael Carrick could be used as part exchange.

Now part of me hopes, for once, that the red-tops have this spot on because I`d just love us to go head-to-head with City in the transfer market and see if ambition can see off money!

Where would your money be going, on us or them?

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The Journalist

Writer: Red Boy Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday May 20 2010

Time: 6:00PM

Your Comments

I might irritate a few out here by my statement but for me going to City doesn't mean he is going for money,whether anyone likes it or not City have done pretty well and with a huge transfer budget again,this year they will be even more stronger and I do believe that they will get that CL position pretty soon.The only way they will destroy it is by doing a Real Madrid and trying to get instant success rather than going with continuity.
Antriksh (abmtd)
On the other hand if we were interested too this would mean unnecessary hiking of prices, villa won't complain, bitters can afford it and we can't.
elvido
JM is another player who would be a pretty good signing for us.Like Rodwell,he too has all the qualities that would make SAF take notice of him.To tell u the truth,Milner,Rodwell,Silva,Ireland,Modric all of these would be good signings for us in my opinion and I hope its from this group but in SAF we have a manager who can always spring a surprise and buy someone unknown.
Antriksh (abmtd)
Just heard that RM are closing in on Silva,so we are about to lose another target but what about Ribery then?
Antriksh (abmtd)
Maybe I havent watched enough of James Milner but, everyone is always describing him as promising. At 24 how much of an improvement are we expecting? Carrick was 6 months older when we signed him than milner is now. Carrick has done well for us, but his improvement was hardly drastic - why should milner be any different. I would have james milner over carrick based on this seasons performances, but if we only sign one player - I'd rather it was someone better than milner - especially at the prices quoted for him.
tuscan3000
In terms of our potential targets going elsewhere, we dont need to be too worried - I think waiting is probably the best course of action. Once Barca, Madrid, Chelsea and City have finished snapping up all the young talent they desire, we'll pick from whoever is left. More importantly, with those four having satisfied themselves the prices will be more realistic.

Players who could potentially be available this summer include: Silva, Mata, VanDerVaart, Giovinco, Krasic, Hamsik, Jovetic, Ozil, Marin, Ribery, Gourcuff, Hazard, Di Maria, Aimar, Ben Arfa, Joe Cole, Ireland, Douglas Costa, Milner, Ashley Young, Modric, Pienaar and Arteta. Some of those will go to the big spenders, some of them will stay with their clubs - based on that list we wont exactly be short of quality options whoever we go for.
tuscan3000
Playing and career wise Milner would be MUCH better off either joining United or staying at Villa, but obviously financially to join Citeh. People have only used part of Randy Lerner's 'sell to buy' speach. Villa do not want or need to sell Milner, and the only way they would consider it is with a stupid large offer well in excess of what he is actually worth. Can United afford that? We know Citeh can.
krfeskivilla
milner is definitely an upgrade over what man u have at central midfield. He has a good combination of skill and industry. Furthermore he has the ability to take on players. That is something that Scholes never had.
hardcore_spurs
Would want him here if we get rid of at least one of Carrick or Gibson.
elvido
Tuscan, your argument is so flawed! Once Barca, Real, Citeh and Chelsea pay big money to get promising players, you think the other players will be sold at a realistic rate? You evidently don't understand how a market works.
JT_daniel
And I'm sure if Citeh offers 100k a week, he'll have no problems in choosing the blue side of Manchester. After all, if Mancini does spend the reported 70-80 million on players, they've got a hell of a chance to go for the league title. He might get CL football with you for a season- What else? A history book free with his contract?
JT_daniel
JT, you don't understand a footballer as much as the market, the prospect of success as opposed to guaranteed titles more often than not sways it towards us. Citeh have already spent a ton of money and still couldn't qualify, winning the league even with galacticos II would be very tough as RM are finding out. And apart from Barca and maybe Chelsea, no other team offers any stability or success, and two clubs can't possibly buy everybody! Either ways, I don't think we really need him.
elvido
JT, I'll try to explain what I mean. Lets use Ribery as an example. If he decides he wants to move after the world cup, bayern will struggle to keep him - but in the end nobody wants an unhappy player so they will probably listen to offers. Now they have already said they think he is worth 50m. If madrid have already bought Silva, Barca have Hazard, Chelsea have Di Maria and City have Ozil - who is going to pay 50m for Ribery? No one. They will have to lower their price, keep an unhappy player or lose him for nothing in the future. Players are worth what people will pay for them. If the guys with the money have all the players they want, the values of players still to be sold has to be adjusted to the prices everyone else can afford to pay. We might not buy anyone, but you're silly to think that clubs will be demanding 30m for average players if the clubs with the big money to spend dont want to buy them.
tuscan3000
Tuscan, Succinct! Excellent!
elvido
Right, you're assuming that clubs like Real Madrid and Citeh will be content with just a player? Barca have bought Villa, yet Marca comes up with a 70 million Torres link and a 50 million Fabregas link, not to mention a 24 million Hazard link and an occasional 22 million Ashley Young link. So obviously, according to your argument, Bayern will look at Citeh, Real Madrid, Chelsea buy players and give an almighty sigh and say that - "Oh, they've all bought players. Nobody will want Ribery" and sell him for a lesser price?? The problem is, why was Villa's valuation suddenly raised to 50 million euros last year when Chelsea enquired? That was directly due to The 80mill Ronaldo, 56 mill Kaka, 65 mill Ibramovic effect. Valencia didn't want to sell because they knew, that in this current climate where silly money is thrown, it would be idiotic to sell their star forward at a more realistic price of 30 million. Your argument of an unhappy player is flawed because if a club did have an unhappy player, and if they are looking to sell, why on earth will they price the player out of the move?? Bayern weren't looking to sell last season, Arsenal are not looking to sell this season. I never said that this applies for average players- we're looking at the top boys here. Look at Benfica- They've slapped a incredible 50 million euros price tag on David Luiz, an equally staggering 45 million euros on Di Maria. You think they'll lower their valuation when nobody buys? You brought up that unhappy player scenario, I was talking generally.
JT_daniel
No chance in hell are the other clubs suddenly going to price the transfers realistically once they realise the big spenders have had their fill. For starters, how will they even know that the spending is done? This is utterly ridiculous. Even rednose acknowledged this when he spoke about the "ridiculous transfer market" recently. You'd think that if he had this brainwave of an idea of keeping low till the big boys have had their fill and then poaching on the rest of the cream at realistic prices, he would've done it for the past 8 years. It just does not work that way. YIf tomorrow Rooney wants out, submits a transfer request, but nobody are interested since they've already got the likes of Villa, Torres, Ibra, Eto'o, Kaka etc etc etc- United will suddenly lower their asking rate of Rooney (even tho they got 80 million for a similarly talented Ronaldo?).

Your words- "More importantly, with those four having satisfied themselves the prices will be more realistic."- Akin to the big spenders giving a burp after a good meal and declaring that their meal is finished, so that you lot can sneak in and buy with realistic prices? Oh come on, you really want to defend that statement??
JT_daniel
Elvido, I don't get it- "prospect of success as opposed to guaranteed titles more often than not sways it towards us"-- Surely you don't doubt that Citeh can mount a decent title challenge next season? There is talk of spending 70-80 million on players this summer- As much as I can say that money does not garuntee success, obscene amounts just might do it.. Tell me, a chance to be a part of history by achieving something big for the first time in the club's history + insane amounts of cash? Or a significantly lower salary in a settled, illustrious club where you will be just one out of generations of trophy winners? Think like a non-United, neutral fan who doesn't give a flying fart about the Manchester rivalry. Add to it lofty promises of League titles+CL within the next 5 years, who wouldnt? I can't think of any reason why he would come to United. I was afraid Citeh will make these kind of signings, talented partial mercenaries who'll improve their squad tremendously.
JT_daniel
The point is they have failed thus far and it'll be a while before they are in a position to do so. There's more to a team than a collection of stars. They will challenge, but to be consistent threat will take them a while. They have their Lescotts to our Berbas, I am not as pessimistic as the other about our squad. The injuries and a couple of players' lack form has affected us apart from the obvious losses. I think that we will a lot more cohesive and attacking next year. You are totally discounting any success from any other team for them to get that kind of profile apart from money grabbers, the kind of success we have had over the last three years. Being cock a hoop over one season is understandable but you have to understand our confidence, some may say over. Irrespective of what's been said of the manager, we have had our trophies, so until he is in charge I am not worried about the noisy neighbours. eventually is another story.... no one can guarantee anything, if people expect us to a Leeds so can a lot of other clubs.... Speculating based on recency is silly.... By the way guarantee as opposed to a challenge, which Arsenal has been doing for the last few seasons now. No offence to any Arsenal fans....
elvido
Right Elvido, you lot will never do a Leeds. Too high a profile, too loved by the world. The worst we can hope for is that your next owners will be as crappy as the glazers.. lol :)
JT_daniel
I personally wouldn't pay 20 mil for Milner let alone 28 mil. If he was a more respectible price then maybe but for how much we are supposedly going to pay i'd rather we paid an extra 8 mil on Silva or, as tuscan recommends, buy Hamsik.
TheFamousNo7
JT_daniel, I really cant see why you are struggling so much with this concept. Im fully aware that the big spenders will buy more than one player, but equally they cant buy everyone. In my example, I mentioned players that operate in the the same area of the pitch for a reason. My point was to make clear that even if the big four all buy one or more attacking midfielders, there will still be lots of other top attacking midfielders available.

If there are 15 top attacking midfielders available this summer they will not all be sold for 45m because thats what madrid pay for di maria. At some point during the window, clubs will adjust their prices based on what those who bid for them can afford to pay. An example would be douglas costa. Gremio put a 20m price tag on him when it became clear United were interested. When United declined, Gremio were left with a player who wanted to move to europe and no rich clubs to buy him. So they lowered their price and sold him to shaktar for 6m. Last year madrid wanted to sell robben for 30m but had to sell him for 22m when none of the clubs who could afford 30m wanted to buy him for that price. Whether the big spenders buy 1 player or 10 players this summer there will still be players who they do not try to buy. Those players wont be sold at bargain prices just because the big spenders arent interested, but neither will they be sold at ridiculous premiums if the clubs who can afford to pay those sums dont show an interest.

No club needs to announce that they have finished spending in the transfer market. It becomes obvious when you see who they have bought and who they bid on. For example, Im confident United and Chelsea wont bid on a left back this summer. Man City will probably buy one and spurs might too. Any left backs that become available will command a high price because man city are in the market. If spurs and city go for the same left back spurs will have to match the prices paid by city. If spurs go for a different left back, that club will want to keep prices high. It then becomes a waiting game. Once City have bought their left back, the other club have a choice to make. Maintain their asking price and risk spurs walking away completely, making their player unhappy about being priced out of a move. Or they lower their price (even just a little) to tempt spurs into buying. A lot of clubs will be stubborn and maintain the higher price. But equally their will be clubs who cannot really afford not to sell. If it so happens that there are a few young left backs available with similar talent level, spurs will shop around until they find a price that suits them. Whilst the big spenders are in the market for a player in a particular position its obviously a sellers market. Once they have those positions covered, it will become a buyers market.

I dont think anything I've said is so far beyond the realms of reality that you could fail to understand it. In fact, you're probably just being difficult.
tuscan3000
You're again introducing the concept of "Unhappy" players (Douglas Costa). or players whom the club is desperate to sell (Robben, Sneijder)- So youre telling me all the 15 attacking midfielders are desperate to get out of their clubs or all the 15 clubs want to sell them off as soon as possible? That possibility may be in a few cases, but all? Di Maria is perfectly happy at Benfica and he's said repeatedly that he does not want to move. I'm not saying all will be sold for 45 million- But if Madrid do pay 45 million for Di Maria, the prices for all the other attacking midfielders will leap wa beyond their normal asking price- Pjanic will suddenly become 20 million rated, Ozil will become 25 million, MOdric will become 30 million- What you say, maybe in cases where the player wants to get rid of the club or when the Club is desperate to sell. And yes, you gave the Man Citeh example- It's the same, maybe marginally lesser, if Chelsea, Arseenal, Citeh, RM, Barca, Bayern have all satisfied their fair share of talents and Untied is left over. You think clubs will lower their prices to realisitc ones, just because United is the only one left in the market and that they are not prepared to pay over the odds? Again, that's applicable for "unhappy" players or those that the clubs want sold- (That "unhappy" concept was introduced by you ^^, I was generalising).
JT_daniel
""But equally their will be clubs who cannot really afford not to sell. If it so happens that there are a few young left backs available with similar talent level, spurs will shop around until they find a price that suits them. Whilst the big spenders are in the market for a player in a particular position its obviously a sellers market. Once they have those positions covered, it will become a buyers market.""---- I thought the discussion was about top players, the ones who have already shown dazzling potential to be the very best, not the "future talents" bracket. I was talking only about the top bracket. Benfica can really wait and sell Di Maria for 45 million next season if they don't find any suitors than ManYoo, who'll offer them on;y 25 million. Wolfsberg did the same with Edin Dzeko too, even though Milan were the only club interested, they told them to feck off when they did not meet their valuation. Your concept of clubs who can't afford NOT to sell doesn't usally come when we are talking ab0out top players. Definitely all the 15 top attacking midfielder's clubs will not be desperate to sell them, neither are all the 15 midfielders unhappy.
JT_daniel
Alright, feck this debate. My head is spinning. lol Just one thing, you think Suarez (Reported cost-25+ million) or Di Maria (Reported cost- 45 million) or Ozil (Reported cost-25 million) will be reasonably priced just because there are no top clubs interested in them except one or two?They'll wait till next season, but will not forgo the extra dough they might earn. I get your point, that if there are players in small clubs who have to sell, or disillusioned players who want to get out might drive the price down, but that's not the case in every transfer- It might be for some, but not for all. When we are talking about transfers for hot prospects like Di Maria, Nyemar, Dzeko, Suarez etc etc, the clubs prefer to wait rather than sell for cheap.
JT_daniel
Can we just stop this debate, please? My head hurts. I'm posting this 3 hours after my previous post and just reading through all of the above comments makes my head spin.
JT_daniel
So essentially we now agree. SOME clubs will choose to wait if the money isnt right or the player isnt too bothered about leaving. But SOME clubs will need the money, and SOME previously happy players will kick up a fuss when they see which teams are interested in them - forcing their reluctant clubs to sell. The point is with the amount of talented young players out there at the moment, SOME will be bought for massive fees but SOME will be available at cheaper prices because the specific circumstances of the club/player makes it the most sensible option.

I keep talking about unhappy players wanting to leave because its entirely relevant. Im not talking about players that hate their current clubs. Im talking about players that like their current clubs but become excited about moving to a different club when the opportunity presents itself. Those players would become unhappy if denied the opportunity to leave because the club was asking for a fee far in excess of what the other club could realistically afford. You seem to be talking about a situation where the club dont need to sell and the player is happy to stay. Chelsea and City might find themselves in that situation a lot - their solution is to pay massive transfer fees and massive wages to get both club and player to change their mind. Most clubs dont do transfers in that way. They try to sign players that want to play for them and are available (their club might not want to sell them, but economic factors mean its in their interest to).
tuscan3000
You signed Berbatov who didn't particularly want to play for you, you ended up paying "massive transfer fees and massive wages". I find that generalisation of "Chelsea and City" a little funny.
JT_daniel
Be sensible. Berbatov himself said he would have earnt more at City. Players earn alot at United - they earn more at City and Chelsea - ask Bosingwa and Ballack.
tuscan3000
Jeez, this is one of the most theoretical arguments without any definite conclusions i have read in a long time. A lesson in how to use the language to inform and confuse!!!
elvido
lol elvido, feel free to join in. :) And Tuscan, Bosingwa earns 48k a week, Ballack earns 80k a week + his signing on fee spread over the 4 years of his contract which works out to be 120k a week, but essentially 80k a week. Hardly sky high. Berbatov refused City only because they couldn't offer him CL footy.
JT_daniel
 

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